IRC 2007/07/13

15:04 < vmx> walter: does wymeditor0.4b2 work for you?
15:04 < ashnur> :)
15:05 < WalterTamboer> nope
15:05 < WalterTamboer> :(
15:05 < ashnur> i think that even word2003 does not works for him
15:05 < WalterTamboer> ashnur: ...
15:05 < jfhv> what doesn't work?
15:05 < ashnur> no offense, it's just my humble opinion
15:06 < WalterTamboer> a stupid-not-thinking-logic opinion yes.
15:06 < WalterTamboer> jfhv: one moment
15:06 < jfhv> ok
15:08 < jfhv> I just found your post at  http://forum.wymeditor.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=423#423
15:09 < ashnur> :)
15:09 < jfhv> What browser do you use?
15:09 < WalterTamboer> I'm editting it a bit because it's a little bit harsh
15:09 < WalterTamboer> now it's just simple complaining without a good reason so one moment ;)
15:11 < ashnur> :-@
15:11 < jfhv> OK so perhaps we could start the meeting
15:11 < jfhv> does someone know if Bermi will be present?
15:12 * vmx doesn't know
15:12 < jfhv> OK
15:12 < jfhv> Volker, I tested the SAPI in FF
15:12 < jfhv> I've got a question
15:12 < jfhv> if I open test/advanced.html,
15:13 < jfhv> put the cursor after the SF image
15:13 < jfhv> then hit a key
15:13 < jfhv> i get isAtStart: BODY
15:13 < jfhv> is it good?
15:14 < jfhv> sorry, isAtEnd
15:15 < vmx> i've to take a look
15:15 < jfhv> OK, I let you see
15:17 < jfhv> Walter: what browser do you use, please?
15:17 < WalterTamboer> I use Opera 9.2, FF2, IE7
15:18 < jfhv> And you get all these errors in the 3 browsers?
15:18 < ashnur> :)
15:18 < WalterTamboer> yes
15:18 < jfhv> Do you have a test page I can check out?
15:18 < vmx> jfhv: it's a bug, isatstart/end also doesn't work in lists
15:19 < jfhv> volker: yes, I saw that
15:19 < WalterTamboer> not at the moment but i can make one.
15:19 < WalterTamboer> give me sec
15:19 < jfhv> nice
15:19 < ashnur> may I ask something? :)
15:19 < jfhv> of course
15:21 < ashnur> i had a lil problem implementing wymeditor into my site because I already had an jQuery object
15:21 < jfhv> explain?
15:23 < ashnur> well i tried exactly how it is here  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/wiki/0.3/Integration
15:24 < jfhv> and?
15:25 < jfhv> I'm sorry, I don't understand exactly what you mean by 'jQuery object'
15:25 < ashnur> :)
15:25 < jfhv> please be more descriptive
15:26 < ashnur> i'll try
15:26 < jfhv> is there a test page somewher?
15:26 < ashnur> wait
15:26 < ashnur> :)
15:26 < jfhv> volker: will you have some time this month for the project?
15:26 < ashnur> i'm trying to write it all
15:26 < vmx> ashur: the element you want to turn into a wymeditor is a jquery object?
15:26 < vmx> jfhv: hardly
15:27 < ashnur> why don't you ppl wait till i cand explainn all I want
15:27 < vmx> *ashnur (sorry)
15:27 < vmx> ashnur: because i thought i've already understood it :)
15:27 < ashnur> so i tried how it's there and did not worked. sry but i just lost my patience then, had some deadlines. anyway now i use it like $('.wymeditor').wymeditor({ etc etc.
15:27 < jfhv> ashnur: my meeting time is very limited
15:27 < ashnur> ok
15:27 < ashnur> sry
15:27 < ashnur> it works almost perfect now
15:28 < WalterTamboer> and you had a variable var $ = jQuery.noConflict();?
15:28 < ashnur> no I have not
15:28 < ashnur> i have only one problem, maybe you solved it already, or I made some errors when implementing it
15:29 < ashnur> it happens in firefox, when the wymeditor loads and i try to make any actions it generates errors
15:29 < ashnur> but if i click in the editor area, and wait till the first <p> appears
15:29 < ashnur> everything is fine
15:30 < jfhv> perhaps it's related to #58
15:30 < jfhv>  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/ticket/58
15:30 < ashnur> yes
15:30 < ashnur> it's the same error
15:31 < jfhv> volker: what do you think about the proposed fix?
15:31 < jfhv>  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/ticket/58#comment:3
15:31 < ashnur> i have 0.3 i will update it today
15:32 < ashnur> thank you
15:32 < ashnur> i just wanted to know if you knew about it.
15:32 < ashnur> i wish i could help you guys with something :)
15:32 < WalterTamboer> jfhv: Can't make a test page right now because I'm kinda busy but I have the same problems as with the normal 0.4b
15:33 < jfhv> ashnur: no problem, any feedback is welcome
15:33 < jfhv> walter: is Firebug installed?
15:33 < WalterTamboer> nope
15:33 < jfhv> that could help
15:33 < WalterTamboer> or is it
15:33 < WalterTamboer> let me c
15:34 < ashnur> pft
15:34 < ashnur> :)
15:34 < WalterTamboer> it is
15:34 < WalterTamboer> hehe
15:34 < ashnur> gr8
15:34 < jfhv> oh, please don't be sarcastic
15:34 < WalterTamboer> no jQuery object found in the dialogs
15:35 < ashnur> jfhv if i want to help you with javascripting, where should i start it?
15:35 < jfhv> walter: what's the filename of the jquery file?
15:35 < WalterTamboer> ashnur: I'm not a FF user, just use it for testing. That's why I didn't remember if I had it installed
15:35 < vmx> jfhv: ican't say much. if it solved the problem use it. in future the selection api will need to save the current selection if you click a button. so if nothing is selected it will (should) create an empty selection
15:36 < ashnur> sry walter, U dont have to explain it to me. i'll stop bugging you for now :).
15:36 < jfhv> volker: I c
15:36 < WalterTamboer> jquery-1.1.3.js
15:36 < jfhv> walter: please rename it to jquery.js
15:36 < WalterTamboer> but jfhv: I leave it for now :) I already created my own editor :)
15:36 < ashnur> ...
15:37 < jfhv> I guess your problem is a common issue
15:37 < ashnur> and you tell me to not be sarcastic
15:37 < WalterTamboer> ashnur: amazing isn't it?
15:37 < jfhv> walter: please rename it to jquery.js
15:37 < jfhv>  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/wiki/0.3/Integration#Explanation
15:37 < jfhv> WYMeditor automagically detects the paths of required CSS and JS files.
15:38 < jfhv> You'll need to initialize basePath, cssPath and jQueryPath if you don't use default file names (i.e. jquery.wymeditor.js, wymeditor/skins/{skin name}/screen.css, jquery.js).
15:38 < WalterTamboer> jfhv: I need to get something done today with an editor but I want to help with the editor later on if you want me to help you ;)
15:39 < jfhv> OK. ashnur: to reply to your question, the Opera implementation needs some work
15:39 < vmx> jfhv: the selection api "problem" you asked at the beginning isn't a bug
15:39 < ashnur> :)
15:39 < ashnur> i so hate Opera, but ok
15:40 < ashnur> vmx?
15:40 < jfhv> ashnur: I don't want to force you to do things you don't want to do :)
15:41 < WalterTamboer> best browser in the world, did you know that Opera has the fastest Javascript engine?
15:41 < ashnur> this guy is really annoying
15:41 < ashnur> :)
15:42 < jfhv> no sarcasm, please
15:42 < ashnur> i'm not sarcastic right now
15:42 < jfhv> OK, that's nice
15:42 < ashnur> i said the he annoys me :)
15:42 < WalterTamboer> hehe I'm not sarcastic too :) it IS the fastest engine :P
15:42 < jfhv> walter: did you renamed the file?
15:42 < WalterTamboer> yes
15:43 < jfhv> and?
15:43 < vmx> please don't go off-topic (starting flames), this is a developer meeting
15:43 < jfhv> I agree
15:43 < vmx> so jfhv: what's next
15:43 < ashnur> jfhv are you talkin about this?  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/ticket/61
15:43 < WalterTamboer> jfhv: I have some good results.
15:43 < jfhv> about #58, perhaps there's a way to force the focus atm
15:44 < ashnur> no, i was asking about the Opera implementation
15:44 < jfhv> walter: nice
15:45 < jfhv> current discussion is about #58
15:45 < jfhv> iframe unfocused > force focus
15:45 < ashnur> :-s
15:46 < jfhv> volker: the problem is when the user click on a button tool, nothing will happen if we use the proposed fix
15:46 < jfhv> and the user will be upset
15:46 < jfhv> so I'd like to force the focus
15:48 < jfhv> ... before having the SAPI in place
15:48 < jfhv> any opinion?
15:48 < vmx> yes that should work then
15:48 < vmx> forcing a focus shouldn't be that hard to implement
15:49 < jfhv> OK, so I'll make some tests
15:50 < jfhv> OK, something to add about 1) current tickets?
15:50 < jfhv>  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/report/3
15:51 < ashnur> u said that the Opera implementation needs some work
15:51 < jfhv> yes
15:51 < ashnur> did you mean #61?
15:52 < jfhv> yes, among others - Opera implementations don't react the same in the different OSes
15:52 < ashnur> ?
15:52 < jfhv> there's also some work to do in ._exec
15:53 < ashnur> i check it out
15:53 < jfhv> ashnur: designMode implementations differ between browsers
15:53 < jfhv> and sometimes even between OSes
15:54 < ashnur> i saw some browser specific code when i was exploring the source
15:54 < vmx> jfhv: ithink all quick fixes should go into 0.4 (perhaps with notices that the sapi might replace them)
15:54 < jfhv> volker: what tickets?
15:56 < jfhv> ashnur: you should check jquery.wymeditor.opera.js
15:56 < vmx> oh indent/outdent is an enhancement. so if you think it'll be easier with sapi, we could set it to 0.5 milestone
15:56 < ashnur> i'm looking at it right now
15:57 < vmx> so the only problem is #61, right`
15:57 < jfhv> Opera support is still very basic
15:58 < jfhv> the P issue is a major one
15:58 < vmx> although this can also be solved with sapi
15:58 < vmx> but a quick fix might be better
15:59 < jfhv> OK, in FF, it has been fixed by a execCommand when keydown or keyup IIRC
15:59 < jfhv> if(name == WYM_BODY) wym._exec(WYM_FORMAT_BLOCK, WYM_P);
15:59 < jfhv> at keyup
16:00 < jfhv> ashnur: that's something to check, among other things
16:00 < ashnur> ?
16:00 < ashnur> which one
16:00 < ashnur> i got lost
16:00 < ashnur> :P
16:00 < vmx> i think that can be fixed almost the same way it opera, can't it?
16:00 < jfhv> I don't know - testing it is doing the work, actually
16:00 < jfhv> I'll explain differently
16:01 < jfhv> Our customer use MSIE (95%)
16:01 < jfhv> One customer uses FF
16:01 < ashnur> :)
16:01 < jfhv> No customer use Opera
16:01 < jfhv> Currently we don't need the Opera support
16:01 < ashnur> you have 20 clients :P
16:01 < jfhv> a little bit more :)
16:02 < ashnur> :)
16:02 < jfhv> so if someone need a better Opera support, any help is welcome
16:02 < jfhv> needs
16:03 < ashnur> k. but because i did not tried wymeditor with Opera yet, i don't know the bugs you are talking about
16:04 < ashnur> i have to test it
16:04 < jfhv> ashnur: OK. A task is to check if adding the keyup handler with the above execCommand will help.
16:04 < ashnur> i'll
16:04 < jfhv> great, thanks
16:05 < jfhv> volker: so we can go on 2) ?
16:05 < ashnur> np. i hope i can help.
16:05 < vmx> jfhv: yes
16:06 < jfhv> so, 2) SAPI implementations
16:06 < jfhv> one moment, please let me see the logs
16:07 < jfhv> volker: you said: the selection api "problem" you asked at the beginning isn't a bug
16:08 < jfhv> explain, please?
16:09 < vmx> with sel.container you get the node around the current one
16:09 < vmx> startNode/endNode are just the current poisition of the cursor
16:09 < jfhv> aren't we in a P ?
16:09 < vmx> in firefox (and probably also in other browsers) the cursor can be between dom nodes
16:10 < vmx> so it is between <img/> and #text
16:10 < vmx> if you want to get the offset, you will get the offset of the parent. e.g.:
16:10 < vmx> <p><img/>sometext</p>
16:10 < vmx> has these dom nodes:
16:11 < vmx> has these dom nodes types:
16:11 < vmx> [tag][tag]#text[tag]
16:11 < vmx> the cursor can be between [tag] and #text
16:12 < vmx> if you want the parent then, you'll get the parent of all those nodes
16:12 < ashnur> not the <p> ?
16:12 < vmx> although i mus admit that it is strange that the parent is body and not p
16:12 < ashnur> silly :-<
16:13 < jfhv> it is P a the second hit
16:13 < jfhv> but not the first
16:14 < jfhv> so volker, it should be isAtEnd: P, isn't it?
16:15 < vmx> no
16:16 < vmx> if you put sel.container.nodeName in it, it is <p>
16:16 < vmx> ok a quick look at the source and i found the explanation
16:17 < vmx> to get the exact position of the cursor, you need the offset and the corresponding node
16:18 < vmx> let's take a lok at the "normal" case
16:18 < vmx> <p>something</p>
16:18 < vmx> the cursor is "|"
16:18 < vmx> <p>so|mething</p>
16:19 < vmx> so the offset is 2, and the corresponding node has the type #text, right?
16:19 < ashnur> y
16:19 < jfhv> right
16:20 < vmx> <p>so|<b>me</b>thing</p>
16:20 < vmx> the cursor is between a text node and a tag node
16:20 < ashnur> ah
16:20 < vmx> the offset is 1
16:20 < vmx> and the corresponding node is p
16:21 < vmx> if you get the parent of p, you'll get body
16:21 < ashnur> finaly i start to understand :)
16:22 < vmx> therefore there's sel.container. it will return the "expected" tag (like <p> in this case)
16:23 < vmx> although later, when wym features get implemented this problem might disappear, as you can set the cursor to the "right" position
16:23 < ashnur> ?
16:24 < vmx> the you could set the cursor in <p>so|<b>me</b>thing</p> to offset 2 in the #text node "so"
16:24 < vmx> xou won't set it, it will be set (most of the time)
16:25 < vmx> is everything clear? any questions?
16:26 < jfhv> please explain the particular case of the SF image, so I'm sure I've understood it :)
16:28 < vmx> <p><img/></p>
16:28 < vmx> <p><img/>|<p>
16:28 < jfhv> sorry, I mean:
16:29 < jfhv> the isAtEnd: BODY happens before the keyup
16:29 < jfhv> so the text node isn't present, right?
16:30 < vmx> tight there is no text node
16:30 < vmx> *right
16:30 < jfhv> OK, now I understand, cool
16:31 < jfhv> volker: you said you wanted to work on the MSIE SAPI implementation, IIRC
16:31 < vmx> yes
16:31 < jfhv> still OK?
16:32 < vmx> sure, but not this months
16:32 < vmx> if you'd like to work on it you can also do it
16:32 < jfhv> I can try
16:33 < jfhv> did you found an internship somewher?
16:33 < jfhv> somewhere
16:35 < vmx> no not yet
16:35 < vmx> for implementation take a look at  http://mozile.mozdev.org/0.8/doc/jsdoc/overview-summary-InternetExplorerRange.js.html
16:36 < vmx> and  http://mozile.mozdev.org/0.8/doc/jsdoc/overview-summary-InternetExplorerSelection.js.html (the first one has nice comments about the algorithm in the source)
16:37 < jfhv> The first one is based on the code by Jorgen Horstink that I pointed you some months ago
16:38 < vmx> yes i know
16:38 < vmx> jfhv: if you've problems with the selection api you can always drop a mail
16:38 < jfhv> OK, thanks
16:39 < jfhv> this is MPL/GPL/LGPL
16:39 < vmx> can we go on woth 3)?
16:39 < vmx> yes, you shouldn't use the code but the algorithm
16:40 < jfhv> I can also ask if using it is OK
16:40 < vmx> we don't need al that functionality just a small part of it
16:40 < jfhv> yes
16:40 < vmx> asking them is a good idea
16:40 < jfhv> OK, I'll see
16:41 < jfhv> we can go on 3) How to improve documentation
16:41 < jfhv> I got some bad feedbacks about the documentation
16:41 < jfhv> we got one again in this meeting (Walter problems)
16:42 < vmx> i wondered why you don't ship the html files with the release
16:42 < vmx> i always thought they are included but they aren't
16:43 < jfhv> I'd like to ship better integration examples
16:43 < vmx> these will help a lot of people. i don't want to read docs, i want examples
16:43 < jfhv> yes, I agree
16:43 < ashnur> :|
16:43 < ashnur> me2
16:43 < ashnur> :(
16:43 < vmx> i think basic.html and advanced.html are a good start
16:43 < vmx> create an example directory fo the release and put them in
16:43 < jfhv> these are used for development/testing
16:44 < vmx> but they work
16:44 < vmx> in addition can't we bundle jquery with the release? i'd like to have a "just working" release
16:45 < jfhv> we could
16:45 < ashnur> also with some php which dumps the posted data? :)
16:45 < jfhv> that would take place in the examples
16:45 < vmx> php/python etc. examples can come later
16:45 < ashnur> mhm
16:46 < vmx> i think a simple alert (or sometihng similar) would be enough for now
16:46 < ashnur> at leas a popup window
16:46 < ashnur> least*
16:47 < jfhv> I guess a PHP example would be nice
16:47 < jfhv> I got many e-mails asking one
16:47 < ashnur> :)
16:47 < jfhv> a tutorial would be nice too
16:48 < ashnur> basicaly it's the same thing with popup window or php
16:48 < ashnur> tutorial?
16:48 < jfhv> a document describing a WYMeditor integration
16:49 < jfhv> in real-life
16:49 < vmx> examples would be a big leap forward, as i said bundle jquery, basic.html and advanced.html and many people will be happy
16:50 < jfhv> FYI : there's one tutorial in German:  http://www.web-schicht.de/wymeditor-beta-4-erster-test-und-workshop/
16:50 < dreszka> jfhv: yes, but i think that good examples will make the need for docs/tutorials (almost?) disappear
16:50 < dreszka> i agree with Volker
16:51 < ashnur> me2 :)
16:51 < dreszka> :)
16:51 < ashnur> but this tutorial is impressive even if I don't understand german
16:52 < vmx> at the end of that post he says:
16:52 < ashnur> anyway, if you want a tutorial i think you will need a lot of examples too. why don't start with the examples first
16:52 < jfhv> OK - any help is welcome BTW :)
16:53 < ashnur> :)
16:54 < jfhv> e.g. by posting a ticket on the Trac with a example file
16:54 < vmx> "it would be nice to have some goo d described (and nicely structured) demos, where some different scenarios are shown"
16:54 < vmx> (whaa that was horrible english but you got the point :)
16:55 < jfhv> OK so urgent task: examples
16:55 < jfhv> OK I'm sorry I need to go now
16:55 < vmx> "i have to admit i take a look at the source first ..."
16:55 < ashnur> :)
16:56 < vmx> cu jfhv
16:56 < vmx> i've to go too
16:56 < jfhv> OK, thanks for the meeting
16:56 < jfhv> bye bye
16:56 < ashnur> buh bye