IRC 2007/06/29

15:04 < vmx> i think 1) 1143 can be done without bermi?
15:05 < jfhv> yep
15:05 < jfhv> some news about it ?
15:05 < vmx> not more news than i've mailed to you
15:05 < jfhv> OK
15:05 < jfhv> I must confess I'm a bit lost about that issue
15:06 < jfhv> I don't see any solution atm
15:06 < vmx> we should write a small designmode test without jquery
15:06 < vmx> to see where the problem is
15:06 < jfhv> yes
15:07 < vmx> then it's eaier to track the problem down
15:07 < vmx> but it is probably the expando problem
15:07 < jfhv> yep - how do you plan to use expandos in the test ?
15:07 < vmx> you can jsut add an expando to an attribute
15:08 < vmx> *to a tag
15:08 < vmx> element
15:08 < jfhv> :)
15:08 < jfhv> so e.g. by traversing the dom nodes
15:08 < vmx> just: var elem = document,getElementById("exp"); elem.foo = "bar";
15:09 < jfhv> ok, I see
15:09 < vmx> that way i made tests for 1143, but not with designmode
15:09 < vmx> so we need a file with designmode on and one button/link to create lists
15:10 < jfhv> Yes. I came to the conclusion that the issue comes from MSIE + designMode + expando
15:11 < jfhv> OK. I won't have the time to do it soon (I'll be on vacation for next week :)
15:11 < jfhv> Could you make the tests?
15:11 < vmx> i can try it, but can promise
15:12 < vmx> i've writte a minimal designmode app once, but don't know where it is
15:13 < jfhv> Perhaps you can take a look at my test/020 branch, I did some basic tests
15:13 < vmx> yes, but with jquery, i just need plain javascript
15:13 < vmx> but we'll see what ican do
15:13 < vmx> that's all i can say about 1143
15:14 < jfhv> OK
15:14 < jfhv> Another thing
15:14 < jfhv> Are you aware of  http://drupal.org/node/146624 ?
15:15 < jfhv> The problem is: Drupal 5 uses jQuery 1.0
15:16 < jfhv> So the WYMeditor 0.3 module isn't doable yet
15:17 < jfhv> A guy (edrex) has rewritten jQuery 1.1.3a to hQuery, if I understand well
15:17 < jfhv> So they can create the module
15:17 < jfhv> Do you think it's a good solution?
15:18 < vmx> i think thay changed jquery to hquery to have no conficlt between the libs
15:18 < vmx> so they use hquery just for wymeditor
15:18 < vmx> until drupal (in version 6) uses the right jquery version
15:19 < vmx> so for drupal 5 there isn't a benefit that wymedtior uses jquery
15:19 < vmx> as they bundle 1.1.3a with wymedtior
15:19 < jfhv> Isn't it possible for Drupal to upgrade to latest stable (1.1.2) and overwrite several jQuery functions?
15:20 < vmx> i think it's to risky for them
15:20 < jfhv> ... so they package these overwritten functions with the module
15:20 < vmx> and this way it's even better for us
15:20 < vmx> we can always use the bleeding edge jquery version
15:20 < vmx> and but our patches upstream (like 1143)
15:21 < vmx> but=put
15:21 < jfhv> I see. So hQuery is OK for you.
15:21 < vmx> no, the just renamed the functions
15:21 < vmx> *they
15:22 < jfhv> OK.
15:23 < vmx> another interesting link, a small wymeditor review:  http://discerning.com/topics/software/ttw.html
15:24 < jfhv> I like 'not any more usable than others, and is worse in some respects. Still beta'
15:26 < jfhv> Interesting article, BTW
15:27 < jfhv> But I guess he hasn't understood WYMeditor's concepts: 'limited features right now'
15:27 < dreszka> seems like people have a hard time to grasp the benefits of wymeditor's specific approach
15:29 < vmx> anything else we should chat about?
15:30 < jfhv> yep, we can speak about 0.4 and the code rewrite
15:30 < jfhv> so I released 0.4 beta
15:31 < jfhv> I'd like to get feedback from users
15:31 < jfhv> Fix possible bugs
15:31 < jfhv> And then work on the code rewrite
15:31 < jfhv> OK for the roadmap?
15:32 < vmx> yes
15:33 < jfhv> OK. I won't be connected next week. Please feel free to commit code and bug fixes.
15:33 < bermi_> I'm back
15:34 < jfhv> hi again :)
15:34 < jfhv> we've spoken about  #JQ1143, Drupal, and an article about WYMeditor
15:35 < bermi_> I'm reading it
15:36 < jfhv> Volker: do you go on holidays this summer?
15:39 < jfhv> BTW, there's an interesting list of image managers in the article
15:39 < vmx> tel
15:42 < bermi_> nice article
15:43 < vmx> jfhv: yes, some days (all in all about 4 weeks)
15:44 < jfhv> OK. Needed to know for the SAPI roadmap.
15:44 < jfhv> I've planned it for 30/09/07.
15:44 < jfhv>  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/roadmap
15:44 < vmx> that should be possible
15:45 < jfhv> cool
15:45 < vmx> my biggest trip is from 23.9 to 6.10 (namibia :)
15:45 < jfhv> cool, too :)
15:45 < jfhv> or maybe hot
15:45 < dreszka> :)
15:45 < vmx> it's an excursion from university
15:46 < jfhv> lucky man
15:47 < jfhv> I'll travel in Belgium next week, with my family (my wife and my two children).
15:47 < vmx> what else should we talk about? (i've one off topic question for the end of the meeting)
15:47 < bermi_> enjoy your holidays
15:47 < jfhv> thanks :)
15:48 < bermi_> I would like to know if there are plans for a solid file/image management interface for wym
15:48 < jfhv> Not atm.
15:49 < jfhv> Some suggestions?
15:49 < bermi_> It would be interesting to have something coded just in javascript and that JS interface should talk via an standard API with ANY web-server technology
15:50 < dreszka> ok
15:50 < jfhv> yes, last point is important IMO
15:50 < bermi_> via AJAX + JSON (and iframed AJAX for file uploading)
15:50 < vmx> there should be an interface so you can plug in which gui you want. i like kupus gui e.g.
15:51 < vmx> the drupal guys might want to use their own
15:52 < jfhv> maybe they can use IMCE and the WYMeditor API?
15:53 < bermi_> we could code a basic API for media management that uses some solid conventions for embeds like the one proposed for flash/videos
15:54 < dreszka> i agree
15:54 < bermi_> it should be for all media type not only images
15:55 < bermi_> and it should not open as a POP-UP, as many user get confused whenever the they click on the main page and the POP-UP becomes a POP-DOWN
15:55 < dreszka> :)
15:56 < bermi_> it should use a lighbox technique
15:56 < dreszka> you can always force te popup tu stay on top
15:56 < vmx> popups are ugly
15:56 < vmx> i also prefer lightboxes
15:56 < bermi_> what about popup blockers?
15:56 < dreszka> but lightbox is most pleasant i agree
15:57 < dreszka> popup blockers should not block windows that pop when you click on a link
15:57 < dreszka> but only the ones that pop without specific actions from the user
15:57 < dreszka> so it shouldnt be a problem
15:58 < dreszka> anyway, i agree that ligtbox (or thickbox) can be more pleasant to use
15:58 < jfhv> Note: for the moment popups are mandatory.
15:58 < dreszka> yes
15:58 < bermi_> jfhv, why?
15:59 < jfhv> You'll loose the selection in MSIE if you don't use popups.
15:59 < vmx> so the selection aoi needs a "preserve selection" function?
15:59 < bermi_> what about when the selection API is ready. Can we store the selection before opening the lightbox?
15:59 < jfhv> I hope so.
16:00 < jfhv> In MSIE, select text, then click on a tool button.
16:00 < jfhv> If it doesn't open a popup, you loose the selection.
16:01 < jfhv> I've made test with thickbox months ago.
16:01 < dreszka> yes i remember :(
16:02 < bermi_> can you load external html files in thickboxes?
16:02 < jfhv> yep
16:02 < jfhv> (using AJAX)
16:02 < vmx> i added the todo to the selection api wiki page
16:03 < jfhv> OK
16:04 < jfhv> So perhaps we need to work on that specific issue before working on the media API
16:04 < jfhv> SAPI -> removing popups -> media API ?
16:05 < bermi_> I need to work on the media API for next month, as it is a requirement for the CMS we are releasing in september
16:05 < bermi_> having a lightbox / pop-up options could change the behavior of the Media interface
16:06 < jfhv> So the media API need the popup remove?
16:06 < bermi_> so you can force pop-ups until the issue is solved
16:06 < jfhv> OK
16:07 < bermi_> perhaps a sort of ModalWindow API
16:07 < jfhv> Bermi, could you write a draft about the media API ? I see that you've already thought about it :)
16:08 < bermi_> this way you can use the Modal.open() method to open external content independently of where
16:08 < bermi_> ok I will
16:08 < jfhv> nice
16:10 < jfhv> OK. Anything to add?
16:10 < vmx> no
16:10 < bermi_> when will the selection API will be complete?
16:11 < jfhv> Well, I planned it for end of September.
16:11 < vmx> in ff it is already almost complete
16:11 < vmx> it just needed to be readded to trunk, right?
16:12 < jfhv> do we rewrite the trunk using literals before working on the SAPI?
16:14 < bermi_> who will do the rewrite?
16:14 < vmx> the rewrite isn't that important imho. its more cosmetical than functional
16:14 < jfhv> I guess I can do it, but not before mid-july.
16:15 < bermi_> vmx, I agree
16:16 < bermi_> where can I see the new SAPI code?
16:17 < vmx>  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/browser/branches/v.mische/test/002/wymeditor/jquery.wymeditor.mozilla.js
16:18 < vmx>  http://trac.wymeditor.org/trac/browser/branches/v.mische/test/002/wymeditor/jquery.wymeditor.js
16:18 < bermi_> thanks i'll have a look
16:18 < vmx> all in test/002/ is the selection api
16:18 < vmx> just check it out
16:19 < vmx> jf: should i make a selectionapi branch from current trunk=
16:19 < jfhv> So if you think the literals are not so important, perhaps you can start to integrate the SAPI code in the trunk ?
16:20 < vmx> or a 0.5 branch with backports of fixes to 0.4?
16:20 < jfhv> I think 0.4 is almost stable.
16:21 < jfhv> But perhaps a 0.5 branch with the backports is the best solution.
16:21 < vmx> can you create a 0.5 branch? you are the svn master :)
16:22 < jfhv> of course :)
16:23 < jfhv> Volker: when do you think you'll start to work on it?
16:24 < bermi_> any time frame?
16:25 < vmx> i'll try to apply the current implementation to 0.5 branch this weekend
16:25 < bermi_> thats great!
16:25 < jfhv> cool!
16:25 < vmx> so everyone can at least code in ff against it
16:26 < vmx> as it is an api all these codings will then work of course also in ie
16:26 < bermi_> after writing the Paper about the Media API and the Interface API I will create a branch for start the work for FF if the SAPI is ready
16:27 < jfhv> many APIs to work on :)
16:27 < vmx> it's so annying that you can't read the error messages in internet explorer when you use wine
16:27 < jfhv> so you don't have a M$ box?
16:28 < vmx> i need to reboot
16:28 < vmx> but ie in wine wirks great
16:28 < jfhv> Ah OK. I use rdesktop.
16:29 < vmx> i need to reboot a machine next to me, i use vnc
16:29 < jfhv> OK. BTW, I guess we'll have to work on the plugins API too.
16:30 < bermi_> y use  http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ :)
16:31 < bermi_> any papers on the pluing API?
16:31 < jfhv> Not atm.
16:31 < jfhv> But I think it can take place after 0.5.
16:32 < jfhv> OK. I'll have to go. Anything to add?
16:32 < bermi_> something based on the Observer pattern can be rally easy to implement and can be attached to any wym method
16:32 < jfhv> Some URL to look at?
16:33 < bermi_> y use it on the Akelos Framework for intercepting models and controllers
16:33 < vmx> my offtopic question:
16:33 < bermi_>  http://www.akelos.org/xref/nav.html?AkActiveRecord/AkObserver.php.html
16:34 < jfhv> OK, I'll take a look. Thanks.
16:34 < bermi_> sorry  http://www.akelos.org/xref/AkActiveRecord/AkObserver.php.source.txt
16:34 < vmx> i look for an internship (3 months) in australia. if anone knows a company which looks for an cs student, just tell me
16:35 < jfhv> sorry, what does cs mean?
16:36 < vmx> computer sciences
16:36 < jfhv> ah :)
16:36 < vmx> (together with geography)
16:37 < bermi_> interesting
16:37 < bermi_> more on Observers implemented in JavaScript  http://www.google.com/search?q=javascript+observer+pattern&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
16:39 < vmx> the company shoudl ahve to do anything with programming of course
16:39 < jfhv> of course
16:39 < jfhv> are you registered on linkedin ?
16:40 < vmx> nope, never heard of that
16:40 < jfhv> well maybe it could help
16:41 < bermi_> vmx, sorry I can't help on that, wish you luck
16:41 < vmx> thanks bermi
16:42 < bermi_> Found an interesting implementation of observers using jQuery. Have a look into  http://drupal.org/node/69786 (search for Observer design pattern example)
16:43 < jfhv> I see - 'looks like the Drupal hooks mechanism'.
16:44 < vmx> jfhv: i've written a minimal deginmode example, i can start testing for 1143 now
16:44 < jfhv> cool!
16:44 < vmx> once 1143 will be fixed it will surely be a running gag ;)
16:45 < jfhv> will be History
16:45 < jfhv> oh, and please commit the test page
16:46 < jfhv> kill the mergeNum
16:46 < jfhv> and destroy the extra DIVs
16:47 < jfhv> OK. I need to go now. I'll create the 0.5 branch, and then go on vacation.
16:48 < bermi_> have fun
16:48 < jfhv> sure, thanks
16:49 < jfhv> have fun, too
16:49 < vmx> jfhv: have nice vacations!
16:49 < jfhv> thanks vmx :)
16:49 < bermi_> I also have to go, I'll be adding docs/code for the APIs
16:49 < bermi_> see you
16:50 < jfhv> thanks for the nice meeting - have fun too - bye bye!