IRC 2007/03/07

10:08 < craq> hey
10:08 < craq> im steve mckenzie
10:08 < dreszka> hi steve :)
10:08 < craq> i guess jfhv is jean
10:08 < craq> :)
10:08 < dreszka> JF will be in 1 minute
10:08 < craq> cool so he told you about me?
10:08 < jfhv> Hi Steve!
10:09 < dreszka> yes
10:09 < craq> awesome :)
10:09 < jfhv> We work at the same office :)
10:09 < craq> haha nice :)
10:09 < craq> i just finished up some client work so im all yours
10:09 < jfhv> Nice
10:09 < jfhv> So, how are you?
10:09 < craq> busy few weeks :S
10:09 < craq> starting a new company,
10:09 < craq> got a new office,
10:09 < craq> moved to a new house,
10:10 < craq> the list goes on
10:10 < craq> :S
10:10 < jfhv> wow, I see :)
10:10 < jfhv> (Daniel got a phone call)
10:10 < craq> ok
10:10 < jfhv> You live in Vancouver?
10:10 < craq> yep
10:10 < craq> wow 9C right now at 1am
10:11 < craq> today has weird weather
10:11 < craq> it hit 17C
10:11 < craq> so odd
10:11 < jfhv> It's rainy here... again
10:11 < craq> same here
10:11 < craq> we get all the rain too
10:11 < craq> even though it got that warm it was raining the whole time
10:12 < craq> so ya, i got some hours sponsored to help with wymeditor
10:12 < craq> love your guys approach with it
10:12 < craq> im sick of tinymce and fckeditor and all those
10:13 < craq> i like how you guys went different and you should the document info like h4 and that rather than trying to be an actual richtext editor like microsoft word
10:13 < craq> you went more "web"
10:13 < jfhv> yes, we tried tiny and so on, but it was a pain :)
10:13 < jfhv> so we created WYMeditor
10:14 < jfhv> for our CMS
10:14 < craq> cool :)
10:14 < craq> ya tinymce makes me mad a lot
10:14 < craq> clients always need richtext
10:14 < craq> so here's what i've been wanting to do with wym
10:14 < craq> have you heard of IMCE ?
10:14 < jfhv> IMCE?
10:14 < craq> hehe
10:14 < craq> its Image / file handling
10:14 < craq> to work with tinymce
10:14 < craq> and fckeditor
10:14 < craq> it does file uploads
10:14 < craq> etc..
10:15 < craq> you guys dont have that in wym
10:15 < jfhv> it seems interesting :)
10:15 < craq> so i wanted to make that work with wym
10:15 < jfhv> cool
10:15 < craq> it has an api to make work with any wysiwyg
10:15 < craq> so thats 1 item
10:15 < craq> i also have a designer willing to help with themes for wym
10:15 < craq> he's good at designing and icons and all that
10:15 < craq> he's who im starting a company with
10:16 < jfhv> ok, that's great
10:16 < craq> did you guys add some sort of a theme engine to 0.3?
10:16 < jfhv> Daniel is in charge of webdesign/CSS
10:16 < craq> cool
10:16 < craq> will get them hooked up
10:16 < jfhv> he's back, I think
10:16 < craq> the guy im partners with is named Boris Chow
10:16 < jfhv> OK
10:17 < craq> who made the drupal module?
10:17 < craq> moxide
10:17 < jfhv> A french guy named Frederic Palluel-Lafleur
10:17 < craq> ok
10:17 < craq> would like to help with that too since im a drupal guy
10:17 < craq> :)
10:17 < jfhv> But I don't know if he's still interested
10:18 < craq> i'll possibly take over..
10:18 < jfhv> Yes, I saw your profile on drupal.org :)
10:18 < craq> :)
10:18 < craq> you guys in belgium ?
10:18 < jfhv> Yes
10:18 < craq> i've been!
10:18 < craq> haha
10:18 < dreszka> i'm back
10:18 < craq> drupalcon in september
10:18 < craq> was in brussels
10:18 < craq> amazing city
10:18 < jfhv> I agree
10:18 < craq> damn good food!
10:19 < craq> and the women!
10:19 < craq> wow
10:19 < craq> ;)
10:19 < dreszka> cool, we saw dries buytaert some weeks ago at the fosdem
10:19 < craq> ah cool !
10:19 < dreszka> :-D
10:19 < craq> he's such a good guy
10:19 < jfhv> yes, the conference was cool
10:19 < craq> and im sure you guys have talked to steven wittens at some point right?
10:19 < jfhv> oops, no
10:19 < dreszka> if you want to know more about themes we can talk about it if you want
10:19 < craq> hmm shocking
10:20 < jfhv> who is he?
10:20 < craq> another main drupal guy
10:20 < craq> from belgium
10:20 < craq> moved here
10:20 < jfhv> ah ok!
10:20 < craq> he's the main javascript guy
10:20 < craq> dreszka: so this is some sort of a theme engine in 0.3 ?
10:20 < jfhv> we don't know Drupal so much
10:20 < craq> there is
10:20 < dreszka> there are lots of talented people who move from belgium to canada
10:20 < dreszka> yes
10:20 < craq> good
10:21 < craq> should setup a good section on the web site for themes
10:21 < craq> get the community going
10:21 < dreszka> It's very fresh, I'm currently building the system
10:21 < craq> ah cool!
10:21 < craq> :)
10:21 < craq> i havent grabbed an svn copy yet
10:22 < dreszka> but I will be very happy to discuss about it and get some help, critics or suggestions
10:22 < craq> cool
10:22 < craq> ya im open
10:22 < craq> so 0.2 to 0.3 is a drastic difference right?
10:22 < craq> since jquery switch
10:22 < dreszka> yes
10:22 < craq> lighter?
10:23 < dreszka> it opens a lot of possibilities
10:23 < craq> hell ya
10:23 < craq> :)
10:23 < jfhv> easier to integrate
10:23 < craq> ya
10:23 < dreszka> easier to implement and to work with
10:23 < jfhv> ... using jQuery, too
10:23 < craq> do you have it $('element.whatever).wymeditor({settings: ''});
10:23 < jfhv> yes
10:23 < craq> excellent
10:23 < craq> :)
10:23 < dreszka> jquery allows for a lot of possibilities also for the theming
10:23 < craq> ya
10:23 < craq> it really does
10:23 < craq> i love jquery
10:24 < jfhv> if you want, you can take a look at  http://files.wymeditor.org/wymeditor/trunk/src/
10:24 < dreszka> i'm a total newbie in javascript programming, but jquery allows people like me (webdesigner) to actually design, so it's very interesting and practical
10:25 < craq> yep exactly
10:25 < craq> in the drupal community now that its in drupal 5, so many designers and even developers that never touched javascript before fell in love with jquery and use it often
10:25 < jfhv> (if you refresh your browser, you'll see Daniel's today code commit)
10:25 < craq> nice
10:26 < craq> i like the containers list on the right side
10:26 < craq> i hate how tinymce toolbars are bloated as can be
10:26 < dreszka> the interface is totally customizable
10:26 < craq> ya
10:27 < craq> image popup isnt working yet?
10:27 < dreszka> WYMeditor's theme system allows total control on the xhtml of the interface + css + you can use jquery to add behavior
10:27 < craq> nice
10:27 < jfhv> not implemented yet
10:28 < dreszka> no, it's not functionnal already, JF is currently porting the features from 0.2 to 0.3
10:28 < jfhv> we're working on core functions
10:28 < craq> cool
10:28 < jfhv> (looking at IMCE)
10:29 < craq> ok cool
10:29 < dreszka> we already have a team of developers contributing on core functions and "core code architecture"
10:29 < craq> cool
10:29 < craq> umm.. the script includes
10:29 < craq> why so many
10:29 < craq> each browser
10:30 < dreszka> the code is structured in a way which allows for different developers to concentrate on specific part (version 0.2 was rather monolithic)
10:30 < craq> but why different js files for different browsers
10:30 < dreszka> now there a lots of files, but it will be distributed later as 1 packed js file
10:31 < craq> ok
10:31 < craq> how come you did var $j = jQuery;
10:31 < jfhv> ie Scott is working on the safari code, I on the MSIE, and so on...
10:31 < craq> to set it up
10:31 < craq> ok
10:31 < dreszka> that's for avoiding conflicts with other js frameworks
10:32 < craq> ok cool
10:32 < jfhv> well, I used jquerynoconflict
10:32 < craq> never thought of it that way
10:32 < craq> hehe
10:32 < jfhv> but 1.1.1 is buggy in MSIE for iframes
10:32 < jfhv> so I switched to the previous version
10:32 < jfhv> :(
10:33 < craq> hmm
10:33 < jfhv> so it was var $j = jQueryNoConflict or something
10:33 < craq> i c
10:34 < jfhv> IMCE is interesting
10:34 < jfhv> is it l10n able?
10:35 < craq> i dunno..
10:35 < jfhv> it's an important feature for us
10:35 < craq> people in the drupal community try to make everything though so,
10:35 < craq> ya i hear ya
10:35 < jfhv> our customers speak french :)
10:35 < craq> hehe
10:36 < dreszka> regarding the theme system, i'll let you take a look at the code, it's rather simple imo. The most important concepts are there, and shouldn't change i think. But we are open to any improvements of course.
10:36 < dreszka> here are the main concepts:
10:37 < dreszka> there is a folder named "skins", in which each theme has to be put in it's folder
10:37 < dreszka> so now we have skins/default
10:37 < dreszka> each theme is made from a css file + an optional js file
10:38 < craq> nice
10:38 < craq> are you guys calling them skins or themes?
10:39 < dreszka> the xhtml structure of the interface can be passed as a parameter of the wymeditor plugin, so it's possible to use any xhtml to define the interface of any wymeditor instance on the page
10:39 < craq> ya
10:39 < dreszka> there is of coursea theme by default
10:40 < dreszka> here are the main concepts of the default theme
10:40 < dreszka> the interface is divided in "areas"
10:40 < dreszka> div.wym_area_top, div.wym_area_left, div.wym_area_right, div.wym_area_main, div.wym_area_bottom
10:41 < dreszka> each of thes areas is a container for sections
10:41 < dreszka> so a section is any "block" you can put to an area
10:42 < craq> ok cool
10:42 < craq> so everything can be switched around and that
10:42 < dreszka> sections are:
10:42 < dreszka> div.wym_containers, div.wym_iframe, div.wym_tools, div.wym_classes, div.wym_status, div.wym_html
10:42 < dreszka> yes :)
10:43 < craq> cool
10:43 < dreszka> then, these sections can be rendered as: toolbar, panel, dropdown, ...
10:43 < dreszka> so the default theme is already very modular
10:44 < dreszka> colors will be kept in a separated file
10:44 < dreszka> so the theme can be deconstructed/assembled in various ways
10:44 < craq> cool. .very nice
10:44 < craq> im skimming over the code
10:45 < dreszka> the panels, dropdowns, ... are not fully implemented yet in the trunk, but are working in my 001 branch so i simply have to port these functionnalities now
10:45 < craq> so you guys call them themes and not skins ?
10:46 < dreszka> in fact, i don't see the difference
10:46 < dreszka> i used the world theme because you started with it :)
10:46 < craq> ahah
10:46 < craq> :)
10:46 < craq> drupal talk
10:46 < dreszka> but the term is "skins" in wymeditor
10:46 < craq> ok
10:46 < craq> just checkin ;)
10:47 < dreszka> ok
10:47 < jfhv> do you want an explanation about the design?
10:48 < craq> sure
10:48 < craq> always nice to know
10:48 < jfhv> ok :)
10:48 < jfhv> so we create a $j.fn.wymeditor
10:49 < jfhv> by calling $j(".wymeditor").wymeditor()
10:49 < craq> yep
10:49 < jfhv> we pass options and callback
10:49 < jfhv> this create a Wymeditor instance
10:49 < jfhv> which init() itself
10:50 < jfhv> the init() creates a 'subclass'
10:50 < jfhv> which is browser dependant
10:50 < craq> yep
10:50 < jfhv> thus for Moz it's WymClassMozilla
10:50 < jfhv> we pass the Wymeditor instance to the subclass
10:51 < jfhv> the subclass inits the iframe
10:51 < craq> yep.. i went through this entire file
10:51 < craq> was wondering,
10:51 < craq> the markup
10:51 < jfhv> and then we copy its prototype to the Wymeditor instance
10:51 < craq> <div class="wym_box"> and on..
10:51 < craq> what about moving that to its own file
10:51 < craq> loading in the box via ajax
10:52 < craq> allowing for a skin file
10:52 < jfhv> yeah, I made some tests weeks ago, using this technique
10:52 < jfhv> let me see...
10:52 < craq> variables like macro
10:52 < craq> <div> {variable} </div>
10:53 < craq> oh you have some {} in sToolsHtml
10:53 < craq> you see the benefit of having it like this though right?
10:53 < craq> your skins will be very nice for managing everything to do with the presentation of wymeditor
10:53 < craq> this is the 1 missing piece
10:53 < craq> drupal handles this with theme functions
10:54 < craq> "skin" functions
10:54 < craq> which can be made to come out in .tpl.php files
10:54 < craq> which are basically just html files with some basic php
10:54 < craq> what you would need to build is have an engine to render the user's tpl file
10:55 < craq> converting {variables} to actual variables
10:55 < jfhv> well, I don't find my tests - anyway, I had problems with this technique, because of designMode
10:55 < jfhv> (using AJAX to load the HTML)
10:55 < craq> designMode..
10:55 < craq> what was happening
10:56 < jfhv> IIRC, it was very difficult to control the iframe
10:56 < craq> hmm
10:56 < jfhv> ... and designMode
10:57 < jfhv> if you take a look at the current code,
10:57 < jfhv> the iframe is loaded and calls init() from the parent
10:58 < jfhv> but we need to use the good Wymeditor instance
10:58 < jfhv> so we pass its index
10:58 < jfhv> to aWYM_INSTANCES
10:58 < jfhv> which is a global array
10:58 < jfhv> actually the problem is the iframe
10:59 < jfhv> and the designmode
10:59 < jfhv> which don't have the same behaviour in the browsers
10:59 < jfhv> MSIE is crazy, BTW
11:00 < craq> hhaha
11:00 < craq> who would of thought
11:00 < craq> :P
11:00 < jfhv> :)
11:00 < craq> im a mac user
11:00 < craq> got a pc too though but only game on it
11:00 < jfhv> i'm a linux fan :)
11:00 < dreszka> we should lock it for it own safety, and hide the key
11:00 < craq> :)
11:01 < craq> so what are your guys goals for launching this
11:01 < craq> dates
11:01 < craq> i saw march
11:01 < craq> its march
11:01 < craq> hah
11:01 < jfhv> we'd like to release a basic 0.3 in March
11:01 < craq> ok
11:02 < craq> cool
11:02 < craq> works for my timeline
11:02 < jfhv> ok
11:02 < craq> so what is left to complete for basic 0.3
11:03 < jfhv> links, images, tables, Safari support
11:03 < craq> ok
11:03 < craq> i will volunteer for images
11:03 < jfhv> we're currently discussin about a Selection API
11:03 < jfhv> cool
11:03 < craq> and then i will get the IMCE thing happening
11:03 < craq> so people can do uploads
11:04 < craq> i saw in your forums it was asked for
11:04 < craq> everyone wants that
11:04 < craq> :)
11:04 < craq> let another project handle it though
11:04 < craq> hehe
11:04 < jfhv> yes, I know :)
11:04 < jfhv> I forgot to mention:
11:04 < jfhv> classes handling
11:04 < craq> so i will work on the image section, imce integration, and a new drupal 5 module
11:04 < craq> ok..
11:05 < craq> btw,
11:05 < craq> steven wittens really loves wym too..
11:05 < craq> and we had a nice talk about it a few months ago
11:05 < craq> or so..
11:05 < dreszka> cool
11:05 < craq> would be great to get it in drupal core
11:05 < jfhv> great!
11:05 < dreszka> oh yes :)
11:05 < craq> drupal needs something like that
11:05 < craq> it lacks that
11:05 < craq> tinymce is a bitch
11:05 < craq> wym's direction is perfect
11:06 < craq> you would have drupal's community support for sure
11:06 < jfhv> ... thanks :)
11:06 < craq> would love to get it in drupal 6
11:06 < craq> thats what we discussed
11:06 < craq> code freeze for that is probably like 6 months to 8 months away
11:06 < craq> so if you guys are interested..
11:06 < dreszka> ok, that's enough time :)
11:06 < jfhv> ok, I think we'll have a 0.3 stable
11:07 < craq> would love to discuss some milestones and all that so we can try and make that happene
11:07 < jfhv> NP
11:07 < jfhv> we'd be glad to help
11:08 < craq> cool
11:08 < craq> so talk to the guy that did the drupal module..
11:08 < craq> see if he wants to continue so we have more help
11:08 < craq> maybe he'll be interested knowing he'll have me for support
11:08 < jfhv> ok, I'll contact him this week
11:08 < craq> i have a lot of drupal experience under my belt for only 1 year of drupal
11:10 < jfhv> Drupal community is very active...
11:10 < craq> so any date specific to aim for for 0.3
11:10 < craq> very active
11:10 < craq> ;)
11:10 < craq> haha
11:10 < craq> i love it
11:10 < craq> got involved a year ago and honestly, it makes the job so much more fun
11:10 < craq> the community is great
11:10 < craq> going to the OSCMS conference in sunnyvale, california in a couple weeks
11:10 < craq> big drupal meetup
11:11 < dreszka> we had few contacts with the drupal community but very positive also
11:11 < craq> will be going to drupalcon in barcelona in septemberish
11:11 < craq> you guys should attend that
11:11 < craq> ;)
11:11 < jfhv> barcelona? why not?
11:11 < craq> :)
11:12 < craq> the brussels one there was like 200 people for straight drupal
11:12 < jfhv> we'll see with our boss if he has some money for the travel
11:12 < craq> was awesome
11:13 < jfhv> yes, we saw a photo at the FOSDEM
11:13 < jfhv> at the Drupal conf
11:13 < jfhv> OK, anything to add?
11:14 < jfhv> (we've to work a little so we don't get fired)
11:15 < craq> hehe
11:15 < craq> ok
11:15 < craq> well we'll talk later..
11:15 < craq> wait..
11:15 < craq> date
11:15 < craq> for 0.3
11:15 < craq> got one?
11:15 < craq> so i know for scheduling this in
11:15 < craq> the image stuff
11:15 < dreszka> when it will be ready :)
11:16 < craq> haha ok
11:16 < dreszka> but we are working hard to make it go fast
11:16 < craq> cool
11:16 < craq> ok.
11:16 < craq> thanks for the chat guys
11:16 < craq> looking forward to this
11:16 < jfhv> thanks, too
11:16 < craq> k.
11:16 < craq> have a good day :)
11:16 < craq> im going to bed
11:16 < craq> lol
11:16 < dreszka> do we may have a basic version in march, and a stable version a few months later
11:17 < jfhv> I suggest you checkout the code
11:17 < craq> cool
11:17 < craq> i will be
11:17 < craq> im going to do some playing around
11:17 < jfhv> and take a look at  http://dev.wymeditor.org/wiki/
11:17 < craq> want the drupal module guy to contact me and know what he is doing first though
11:17 < dreszka> good night :)
11:17 < jfhv> (please don't link to this site, so it doesn't get spammed)
11:17 < craq> haha for sure :)
11:17 < jfhv> you'll see some docs/irc logs/...
11:18 < jfhv> please feel free to attend on this channel, too
11:18 < jfhv> we often meet up at 15:00 GMT
11:19 < craq> ok
11:19 < jfhv> ok, see you later :)
11:19 < craq> cya :)
11:20 < dreszka> bye bye